I was educated by Irish Christian Brothers on 3 different continents , Italian background at the age of 14 I became an atheist . Like Michelangelo , I have been a constant critic of Catholicism. I think that the Pope, in this case, had no option but to sign the document . The Vatican office of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is run by right winged Opus Dei members who have openly contradicted the Pope in the past. Their power is scary, in fact, the Pope chose not to live within the Vatican itself and lives outside the walls.I lived in Natchez MS for 5 years, the now retired local priest used to attend and bless both same sex marriages and funerals. Natchez is a little enclave of liberals, they even voted an openly gay black mayor , who beat 2 other contenders by winning 92 % of the votes. The Catholic Church is changing, of course, ever so slowly , it is up to practicing Catholics to force change.
Speaking as an ex-Catholic, I never understood why a person needed to obey so many rman-made ules and regulations to acknowledge a Supreme Being as creator of the universe. I do believe in God, but doubt he'd care one iota about who has sex with who. I gave up Catholicism 50+ years ago after 12 years of Catholic education. I don't have the answers, but I believe in kindness and honesty. I've given up on politicians and clergy long ago.
The issue is both the decree just released AND that it can be reversed by the next Pope. The conclave may well go more conservative next time and undo much of what Francis has tried to do.
As a private faith based organization the church can decide that the sacrament of marriage is not available from the church to same sex couple. But for the conservatives to push a grey area back into black and white is unacceptable. As someone raised Catholic who spirituality has since exceeded their closed minded dogma I view this as them moving several steps backwards. That it was carefully worded and could have been worse does not excuse what they said and what impact that has. Especially from those who have spent a lifetime hiding sexual abuse against both adults and children.
You gave me something to think about as always. A totally different way to view the message. Thank you for bringing a new point of view and having read it actually agree with you.
I am not Roman Catholic so I do feel a bit awkward commenting on this. However, I believe that as long as the Catholic Church insists on celibacy from its clergy it is going to be difficult them to accept LGBT folks and support equal rights. I have been told by Catholic friends that a high percentage of priests are gay.
Here is my theory. Committing ones life to celibacy is not something most people would be willing do. However, if a person the age that one would be to enter seminary were dealing with sexual issues that were condemned by the Church and its membership it provides an out for the young person. If they marry the Church they won’t have to work through their confusion and sinful attractions. They can dedicate their lives to the Church and not deal with feelings of ame-sex attraction or any sexual desires to which the Church would condemn.
The problem of course is that feelings don’t disappear and at some point they surface down the road. It is not unusual to learn of gay priests. Totally unconnected, there are endless reports of priests sexually abusing young people. The Church regularly tries to hide these cases because publicizing them would lead to more difficulty in finding new priests. The is a shortage of priests to begin with. The Church won’t do anything to make iteven harder to recruit and train new clergy.
As long as the Church insists upon celibacy of clergy it would be self-defeating to do anything to remove the demonization of homosexuality. There has been somewhat less pedanticism in its condemnation of homosexuality but when it comes to major Church doctrine the won’t reverse course. The Church needs to keep future clergy distraught over their sexuality so that they can run away from it and become clergy.
Mike, not being Catholic I don’t know if their is any logic to my theory. I am definitely interested in you reaction and reactions from other readers of your great work.
I am not sure calling a bishop a devil made sense, but as gay man of that era it must been very scary time for you. I hope you know there churches that openly support LGBTQ and my church is one of them. But I understand being gay it hard to want believe in bible when it said you are Abomination it should be murdered. Now I think being gay is not choice nor being trans. However, I strong disagree with your pro abortion worldview. I think late terms should be ban wnd we give more aid to single parents. i will be praying for you as battle cancer. God bless you and your husband.
If you put the Taliban in charge of education, you will only learn what the Taliban wants you to know. That is how they control "believers" and maintain their power. It's when they allow people to use their own reasoning and question beliefs - that's when they lose power and control. As another woman commented here, why is all this religious/catholic mythology revered? Because it reinforces the power and control of a patriarchy that is long past its prime. This is the 21st Century - not the 10th Century! Churches should be taxed, they should have NO say in our laws, nor should their schools be funded with our tax dollars.
I was educated by Irish Christian Brothers on 3 different continents , Italian background at the age of 14 I became an atheist . Like Michelangelo , I have been a constant critic of Catholicism. I think that the Pope, in this case, had no option but to sign the document . The Vatican office of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is run by right winged Opus Dei members who have openly contradicted the Pope in the past. Their power is scary, in fact, the Pope chose not to live within the Vatican itself and lives outside the walls.I lived in Natchez MS for 5 years, the now retired local priest used to attend and bless both same sex marriages and funerals. Natchez is a little enclave of liberals, they even voted an openly gay black mayor , who beat 2 other contenders by winning 92 % of the votes. The Catholic Church is changing, of course, ever so slowly , it is up to practicing Catholics to force change.
Speaking as an ex-Catholic, I never understood why a person needed to obey so many rman-made ules and regulations to acknowledge a Supreme Being as creator of the universe. I do believe in God, but doubt he'd care one iota about who has sex with who. I gave up Catholicism 50+ years ago after 12 years of Catholic education. I don't have the answers, but I believe in kindness and honesty. I've given up on politicians and clergy long ago.
The issue is both the decree just released AND that it can be reversed by the next Pope. The conclave may well go more conservative next time and undo much of what Francis has tried to do.
As a private faith based organization the church can decide that the sacrament of marriage is not available from the church to same sex couple. But for the conservatives to push a grey area back into black and white is unacceptable. As someone raised Catholic who spirituality has since exceeded their closed minded dogma I view this as them moving several steps backwards. That it was carefully worded and could have been worse does not excuse what they said and what impact that has. Especially from those who have spent a lifetime hiding sexual abuse against both adults and children.
They still have much to answer and atone for.
You gave me something to think about as always. A totally different way to view the message. Thank you for bringing a new point of view and having read it actually agree with you.
I am not Roman Catholic so I do feel a bit awkward commenting on this. However, I believe that as long as the Catholic Church insists on celibacy from its clergy it is going to be difficult them to accept LGBT folks and support equal rights. I have been told by Catholic friends that a high percentage of priests are gay.
Here is my theory. Committing ones life to celibacy is not something most people would be willing do. However, if a person the age that one would be to enter seminary were dealing with sexual issues that were condemned by the Church and its membership it provides an out for the young person. If they marry the Church they won’t have to work through their confusion and sinful attractions. They can dedicate their lives to the Church and not deal with feelings of ame-sex attraction or any sexual desires to which the Church would condemn.
The problem of course is that feelings don’t disappear and at some point they surface down the road. It is not unusual to learn of gay priests. Totally unconnected, there are endless reports of priests sexually abusing young people. The Church regularly tries to hide these cases because publicizing them would lead to more difficulty in finding new priests. The is a shortage of priests to begin with. The Church won’t do anything to make iteven harder to recruit and train new clergy.
As long as the Church insists upon celibacy of clergy it would be self-defeating to do anything to remove the demonization of homosexuality. There has been somewhat less pedanticism in its condemnation of homosexuality but when it comes to major Church doctrine the won’t reverse course. The Church needs to keep future clergy distraught over their sexuality so that they can run away from it and become clergy.
Mike, not being Catholic I don’t know if their is any logic to my theory. I am definitely interested in you reaction and reactions from other readers of your great work.
excellent points michael
I am not sure calling a bishop a devil made sense, but as gay man of that era it must been very scary time for you. I hope you know there churches that openly support LGBTQ and my church is one of them. But I understand being gay it hard to want believe in bible when it said you are Abomination it should be murdered. Now I think being gay is not choice nor being trans. However, I strong disagree with your pro abortion worldview. I think late terms should be ban wnd we give more aid to single parents. i will be praying for you as battle cancer. God bless you and your husband.
Thank you for that clarification. Its much appreciated.
If you put the Taliban in charge of education, you will only learn what the Taliban wants you to know. That is how they control "believers" and maintain their power. It's when they allow people to use their own reasoning and question beliefs - that's when they lose power and control. As another woman commented here, why is all this religious/catholic mythology revered? Because it reinforces the power and control of a patriarchy that is long past its prime. This is the 21st Century - not the 10th Century! Churches should be taxed, they should have NO say in our laws, nor should their schools be funded with our tax dollars.
Michael did you visit your mom yet ?