I cut off communication with a former co-worker when I found out she was a Trump supporter. And I was confused since she is from Guatemala. As an African-American woman with friends and family who are LGBTQ, I will not reach out. Why should I have to reach out and understand people who define me as 3/5ths of a human being? Why should I try to persuade a bigot who believes in abusive conversion therapy for LGBTQ? Those people have zero respect for others so they do not deserve my understanding nor accommodation of their hatred.
I had a heated conversation with my father a few months ago and told him I did not want to hear anything that he heard on FOX news anymore and that it was damaging my opinion of his character. He was pretty offended but fortunately he stayed in the conversation long enough to get to what is important about our relationship. I didn't change his mind and it still bothers me that he is ok with bigotry, but he has stopped mentioning conspiracy theories to me.
As for strangers it's a hard no for me to engage in deprogramming trump supporters. They are not acting in good faith and their arguments are not based in reality.
Also Biden is pretty out of touch to call for unity. I refuse to be unified with racists, fascists and bigots who have spent 4 years inciting and engaging in violence towards myself and the people I care about. There is no circumstance that these people and their behavior should be normalized.
One thing I have learned about these people after studying them for 4 years is they actually do care what we think of them. They can be shamed and made to feel unwelcome and if enough people in a community push back at them they become cowards. So there are ways of dealing with them and discouraging their worst behavior.
I have a dear friend who is a Trump lover. He is older than me. (63 and I’m 35.) He doesn’t like talking politics to friends aside from the occasional ribbing, which is fine by me. Frankly, it spares me the headache.
The only time I was ever really annoyed by his politics was this past summer as a passenger aboard my boat on an inland lake 35-miles NW of Milwaukee in red-hot Washington Co. We just so happened to be out on a beautiful afternoon in the midst of one of the infamous Trump boat parades. This one was relatively bridled—no capsizings, sinkings or other maelstrom—just a lot of hootin’ and a hollerin’ and daytime fireworks, of all things, amongst the comically large MAGA flags flying off the ass ends (technically, nautically, sterns) of their boats. I like boats that don’t sink, believe me!
Anyway, just the near physical presence of these fellow Trumpers triggered dear Rick. It’s like he became possessed—grabbed my portable speaker and started blaring country music, and chanting as part of the aforementioned hootenanny from afar (I maintained our boat at a safe and healthy distance, upwind)… My partner purchased a Biden flag right then and there.
The hive mentality of these creatures is incredible. They really are a “basket of deplorables.” I will never tell them such because they twistedly embrace it. I am just fortunate Rick isn’t on any forms of social media to further enhance the delusions, otherwise I would have to resort to Trump-like nicknaming and refer to him as bat-sh!t Rick! SAD.
I will definitely speak with MAGAts. I'm related to some and many are good friends despite their support of treason. I may just call them at Midnight, Jan. 20, I am postponing celebrating New Years Eve until the 19th, to wish them a Happy New Administration!
I had an annual dermatologist appointment last week. While in the waiting room fully masked , a blonde haired middle aged woman patient arrived decked out in full MAGA regalia, hat, mask(“Gays for Trump”),a sweat shirt emblazoned with “Make America Great Again”, white sweat pants printed with tRump’s mug shot, and her large bag was also MAGA . She was on her phone talking and I noted that she had a strong Dutch or German accent. When I left my appointment, I noticed that she was getting into her car, which again was fitted all over with MAGA paraphernalia. I suggest she may never “recover” from whatever mental disturbance motivates her.
This is a huge issue for me, especially heading into 2021. It's likely my husband and I will be leaving California in a few months. We're both from the Midwest but have been here for more than half our lives. Our likely destination is Michigan, my birthplace. This will provide us a built-in web of community right off the bat but will also come with challenges since we'll suddenly be near people who still support the republican party. One of these is my aunt. She's not a lot older than I am, and when I was younger, we sometimes hung out together. I especially remember having a great time seeing Queen with her in 1982 (I don't care what anyone says, I liked the Hot Space album!). She's always been "grumpy", and back in the Obama era I heard rumors she "liked the tea party". But in my family, you avoid these subjects because there is supposed to be nothing that would make you turn your back on family or friends. My father's brothers, for example, are pretty racist. My parents will still drive many hours to attend family reunions, and their solution to the racism is to "leave the room if they start talking like that". My parents are dyed in the wool liberal democrats who accepted me as gay when I came out to them at 15, and transgender later. They are good people, but I don't agree with their approach to this issue.
Fast forward to today, as I lurk on my aunt's Twitter feed. She follows all the worst people, and she "likes" lots of awful tweets, including transphobic ones. When we move back to Michigan there will be an expectation that we spend time with her. I see no point in that, and I have to decide how to handle it. I can certainly look her in the eye, show her the screenshots of the tweets she seems to approve of, and ask her why. But do I even want to waste the energy on that? I'm especially sad that my existence in her life doesn't have enough effect on her to prevent this sickness. I'm in no mood to try to help deprogram her. I've spent my whole life fighting ignorance and I don't feel the need at my age to fight it within my own family, people who are supposed to love me. I'm also angry that the stand I take with her will likely impact my relationships to my mom & dad. That just makes me angrier at her.
This is a very longwinded way of saying no...I will not be welcoming people who currently support Trump/republicans into my life. I want to concentrate my energies on people and projects where my passion and hard work are deserved, and not sacrificed just because we happen to share a family tree or a friendship in the past.
I was raised white evangelical. My extended family is full of Trump supporting, hard-right white GOPers. They are quietly bigoted; openly sexist, anti-Gay, etc. I don't think they can be "deprogrammed." They know I disagree with them, but we don't pick fights with each other and live across the country from each other, so I don't see them much. I think a better use of time and effort is to seek to engage and build a community with people who have been marginalized or disengaged, but who are open to change. White evangelicals/Trumpism is a very sick culture that is rarely changed. We just have to organize outside of them.
There will always be racists and xenophobes. People prone to hatred of anyone not like them and their group of like-minded people.
However, I do think the minds of a great many of them could be changed if this country could get progressive socialist programs and policies implemented. Once people got used to them and comfortable with having free preventative healthcare, free education, affordable shelter, etc. their minds about the left will start to shift. Look at Obamacare. Now that people have had it for a few years, they like it and don't want it to go away. The same with Medicare and Social Security. Republicans have been trying to kill those programs for years and have been unsuccessful.
Michelangelo, I think you mentioned recently about the need for progressive radio stations around the rural areas of the country. In Nebraska, where I'm from, there is nothing but right-wing shit on the AM dial. If progressive radio stations could get in there, it would begin to change some minds. The same with TV. Corporate sponsored TV (whether liberal or not) has always fought against democratic socialism, because it would directly affect their bottom line.
I don't know whether to be optimistic or pessimistic about this country. Every time I begin to get hopeful, America/Americans disappoint me.
When Barack Obama was president, I felt like we had turned a corner in this country. I couldn't have been more wrong. The awful, hateful, ignorant statements from the Magats and Republicans in my life have only gotten worse. They are divorced from reality. In order to see my granddaughters on the day after Christmas, and still stay safe by being outside, I had to stare at my son-in-law's Trump 2020 flag that he proudly displays in his back yard. Luckily, the 'stars and bars' Confederate flag was inside the garage. It physically pains me that he probably rides around with those stupid ass flags flying from the back of his truck. It breaks my heart that these beautiful girls are having their minds warped by this cult. As other readers and Sirius XM listeners have said, there is no middle ground, there is no discussion or acknowledgment of facts. This grandma knows when to shut her mouth and smile, but every day I feel my daughter is turning into a stranger and my granddaughters will pay the price. I don't understand it. What do they think Trump will do for them??
Luckily I don't have to interact with any of the Drumpf cult lately. Frankly, I'll have a nice swear-filled argument ready with them if they ever mention his name. It's impossible for me to be compassionate and understanding to people who follow this scumbag. I'll have a conversation with those folks someday if they ever pull their heads out of their ass.
I know some can be deprogrammed but I think it is a small minority. I am thinking of people like David Weissman, @davidmweissman, whom I follow on Twitter. He was a diehard MAGA in 2015 and 2016 but has since seen the light. I think some are young enough that they were caught up in the pro-tRump "movement" but later open their eyes if there is some independent thought in them. I have seen a few other examples. On the other hand, people like the husband of my niece in Dallas are hard-core QAnon/other conspiracy theorists and can't be reached. Their brains are soaking in anger and paranoia and have been for years. So, the bottom line is in order for me to try to reach out to them I would have to see some small glimmer of independent thought or openness to facts which most of them do not have.
The cult supporters of this failed president should “pray” that the new administration will include, in any new national health plan, a government funded long term mental therapy session policy to deprogram these misled and dangerous people . After being scammed out of funds by their despicable leader they wouldn’t be in a position to pay for long term medical assistance. I say this with “tongue in cheek”. Will be interesting to see what percentage of these “suckers & losers” will admit their folly, and seek assistance.
I know a few who are Trumpers. I don’t engage with them because they are ignorant about politics and history. They are just uneducated on the subjects. Why bother trying to explain anything to them. It’s just frustrating and I need them in my life for specific reasons. I think it’s funny that they want the $2000, but don’t see it as a socialist program. One of them posted a Meme of all the Democratic Socialist Country’s that pay their citizens monthly financial help, then scream that Dems are socialist commies. 😂😂🤣
I cut off any cult45 members a few years ago. I am lucky I don't really have many friends who were supporters. There are unfortunately ones I have to work with, but I am fortunate to work from home now so don't have to deal with them directly.
It will be interesting post pandemic when we are socializing again if the supporters will be so obvious- will they still be wearing the hat? Will they still have their flags displayed on their trucks and homes? Right now with these displays I know who to avoid ...
First off, a Happy and especially Healthy New Year to all. Glad to see '20 almost in the rear-view mirror.
My Mother-in-Law and her husband are "on the other side". We came into each other's lives 32 years ago, she is Grandmother to my child. We learned a very long time ago to "never discuss politics". Once she made the mistake of criticizing the educational system, and I didn't let it pass without a challenge, which ended with, "That's why we shouldn't discuss politics." So, we don't. But, she's a devout Christian living in a rural part of Southern California that over the decades has become an ex-urb of Los Angeles. Anyway, a working class, Conservative, Christian area in the High Desert. Which brings us to today: she told my wife a couple of weeks ago that she "will never accept Biden as legitimate." JFC! She also said that she's afraid if he gets in that we'll become "a Socialist country." Months ago my wife challenged her over the "Socialism" canard with, "Oh, so you don't want your Medicare or your Social Security?" Stopped her dead in her tracks. Now get this: her church, where she teaches Bible study, was closed for many months, but holding drive-in services. Then, a couple of months ago, she texted me while I was working out-of-town (after I had been pandemic-unemployed for 4 1/2 months), saying that she was holding Bible study IN HER HOME, max of 10 people, and that they wore their masks ON THE WAY OVER but TOOK THEM OFF ONCE "SOCIALLY DISTANT". It took me 2 hours to decide to set her straight, I told her that since she was having people in her home, they MUST KEEP THEIR MASKS ON WHEN INSIDE. She wrote me back that "they're all from good families and they wear their masks when out at the grocery, and there haven't been any positive cases in 6 months" in her city. That's when we decided that we will not be visiting in her home during the pandemic. So, 10 days ago we met 1/2 way at a park, sat at different picnic tables, had a meal that we brought, and exchanged bags of gifts for Christmas later. No, I won't be "discussing politics" with her. It's a constant annoyance and the only consolation is knowing that here in California her vote doesn't mean shit, for president, anyway. Yeah, she gets a Rethug congressman, but we get the two senators and the president. We get along just fine so long as we avoid politics. Here's a Wapo story on the hospital that's less than a mile from my MiL's house, we have to drive past it to get to her: https://apple.news/AikyOEJx9QwWWWu4z_ioccQ. My MiL said that "They got a lot of it wrong." It's very frustrating but we keep the peace and have for 3 decades.
Be safe everyone. Be vigilant. I'm afraid it will be getting even worse in another week or two with the Christmas surge, and the hospital ICU's here in L.A. are already at 0% capacity.
Thank you for all that you do, Michelangelo, including for challenging the Trumpists on the air, and for providing this forum. You are a beacon of sanity and rational discourse.
Michaelangelo Happy New Year to you and your family! I think that the numbers supporting Cheetolini will drop back to that historic 20-25% range from before this election. Whether it is worth the effort that will depend on the person. My cousin has not spoken to me since I voted for Barack in '08 and I am fine with that!
I cut off communication with a former co-worker when I found out she was a Trump supporter. And I was confused since she is from Guatemala. As an African-American woman with friends and family who are LGBTQ, I will not reach out. Why should I have to reach out and understand people who define me as 3/5ths of a human being? Why should I try to persuade a bigot who believes in abusive conversion therapy for LGBTQ? Those people have zero respect for others so they do not deserve my understanding nor accommodation of their hatred.
I had a heated conversation with my father a few months ago and told him I did not want to hear anything that he heard on FOX news anymore and that it was damaging my opinion of his character. He was pretty offended but fortunately he stayed in the conversation long enough to get to what is important about our relationship. I didn't change his mind and it still bothers me that he is ok with bigotry, but he has stopped mentioning conspiracy theories to me.
As for strangers it's a hard no for me to engage in deprogramming trump supporters. They are not acting in good faith and their arguments are not based in reality.
Also Biden is pretty out of touch to call for unity. I refuse to be unified with racists, fascists and bigots who have spent 4 years inciting and engaging in violence towards myself and the people I care about. There is no circumstance that these people and their behavior should be normalized.
One thing I have learned about these people after studying them for 4 years is they actually do care what we think of them. They can be shamed and made to feel unwelcome and if enough people in a community push back at them they become cowards. So there are ways of dealing with them and discouraging their worst behavior.
I have a dear friend who is a Trump lover. He is older than me. (63 and I’m 35.) He doesn’t like talking politics to friends aside from the occasional ribbing, which is fine by me. Frankly, it spares me the headache.
The only time I was ever really annoyed by his politics was this past summer as a passenger aboard my boat on an inland lake 35-miles NW of Milwaukee in red-hot Washington Co. We just so happened to be out on a beautiful afternoon in the midst of one of the infamous Trump boat parades. This one was relatively bridled—no capsizings, sinkings or other maelstrom—just a lot of hootin’ and a hollerin’ and daytime fireworks, of all things, amongst the comically large MAGA flags flying off the ass ends (technically, nautically, sterns) of their boats. I like boats that don’t sink, believe me!
Anyway, just the near physical presence of these fellow Trumpers triggered dear Rick. It’s like he became possessed—grabbed my portable speaker and started blaring country music, and chanting as part of the aforementioned hootenanny from afar (I maintained our boat at a safe and healthy distance, upwind)… My partner purchased a Biden flag right then and there.
The hive mentality of these creatures is incredible. They really are a “basket of deplorables.” I will never tell them such because they twistedly embrace it. I am just fortunate Rick isn’t on any forms of social media to further enhance the delusions, otherwise I would have to resort to Trump-like nicknaming and refer to him as bat-sh!t Rick! SAD.
I will definitely speak with MAGAts. I'm related to some and many are good friends despite their support of treason. I may just call them at Midnight, Jan. 20, I am postponing celebrating New Years Eve until the 19th, to wish them a Happy New Administration!
I had an annual dermatologist appointment last week. While in the waiting room fully masked , a blonde haired middle aged woman patient arrived decked out in full MAGA regalia, hat, mask(“Gays for Trump”),a sweat shirt emblazoned with “Make America Great Again”, white sweat pants printed with tRump’s mug shot, and her large bag was also MAGA . She was on her phone talking and I noted that she had a strong Dutch or German accent. When I left my appointment, I noticed that she was getting into her car, which again was fitted all over with MAGA paraphernalia. I suggest she may never “recover” from whatever mental disturbance motivates her.
This is a huge issue for me, especially heading into 2021. It's likely my husband and I will be leaving California in a few months. We're both from the Midwest but have been here for more than half our lives. Our likely destination is Michigan, my birthplace. This will provide us a built-in web of community right off the bat but will also come with challenges since we'll suddenly be near people who still support the republican party. One of these is my aunt. She's not a lot older than I am, and when I was younger, we sometimes hung out together. I especially remember having a great time seeing Queen with her in 1982 (I don't care what anyone says, I liked the Hot Space album!). She's always been "grumpy", and back in the Obama era I heard rumors she "liked the tea party". But in my family, you avoid these subjects because there is supposed to be nothing that would make you turn your back on family or friends. My father's brothers, for example, are pretty racist. My parents will still drive many hours to attend family reunions, and their solution to the racism is to "leave the room if they start talking like that". My parents are dyed in the wool liberal democrats who accepted me as gay when I came out to them at 15, and transgender later. They are good people, but I don't agree with their approach to this issue.
Fast forward to today, as I lurk on my aunt's Twitter feed. She follows all the worst people, and she "likes" lots of awful tweets, including transphobic ones. When we move back to Michigan there will be an expectation that we spend time with her. I see no point in that, and I have to decide how to handle it. I can certainly look her in the eye, show her the screenshots of the tweets she seems to approve of, and ask her why. But do I even want to waste the energy on that? I'm especially sad that my existence in her life doesn't have enough effect on her to prevent this sickness. I'm in no mood to try to help deprogram her. I've spent my whole life fighting ignorance and I don't feel the need at my age to fight it within my own family, people who are supposed to love me. I'm also angry that the stand I take with her will likely impact my relationships to my mom & dad. That just makes me angrier at her.
This is a very longwinded way of saying no...I will not be welcoming people who currently support Trump/republicans into my life. I want to concentrate my energies on people and projects where my passion and hard work are deserved, and not sacrificed just because we happen to share a family tree or a friendship in the past.
I was raised white evangelical. My extended family is full of Trump supporting, hard-right white GOPers. They are quietly bigoted; openly sexist, anti-Gay, etc. I don't think they can be "deprogrammed." They know I disagree with them, but we don't pick fights with each other and live across the country from each other, so I don't see them much. I think a better use of time and effort is to seek to engage and build a community with people who have been marginalized or disengaged, but who are open to change. White evangelicals/Trumpism is a very sick culture that is rarely changed. We just have to organize outside of them.
There will always be racists and xenophobes. People prone to hatred of anyone not like them and their group of like-minded people.
However, I do think the minds of a great many of them could be changed if this country could get progressive socialist programs and policies implemented. Once people got used to them and comfortable with having free preventative healthcare, free education, affordable shelter, etc. their minds about the left will start to shift. Look at Obamacare. Now that people have had it for a few years, they like it and don't want it to go away. The same with Medicare and Social Security. Republicans have been trying to kill those programs for years and have been unsuccessful.
Michelangelo, I think you mentioned recently about the need for progressive radio stations around the rural areas of the country. In Nebraska, where I'm from, there is nothing but right-wing shit on the AM dial. If progressive radio stations could get in there, it would begin to change some minds. The same with TV. Corporate sponsored TV (whether liberal or not) has always fought against democratic socialism, because it would directly affect their bottom line.
I don't know whether to be optimistic or pessimistic about this country. Every time I begin to get hopeful, America/Americans disappoint me.
When Barack Obama was president, I felt like we had turned a corner in this country. I couldn't have been more wrong. The awful, hateful, ignorant statements from the Magats and Republicans in my life have only gotten worse. They are divorced from reality. In order to see my granddaughters on the day after Christmas, and still stay safe by being outside, I had to stare at my son-in-law's Trump 2020 flag that he proudly displays in his back yard. Luckily, the 'stars and bars' Confederate flag was inside the garage. It physically pains me that he probably rides around with those stupid ass flags flying from the back of his truck. It breaks my heart that these beautiful girls are having their minds warped by this cult. As other readers and Sirius XM listeners have said, there is no middle ground, there is no discussion or acknowledgment of facts. This grandma knows when to shut her mouth and smile, but every day I feel my daughter is turning into a stranger and my granddaughters will pay the price. I don't understand it. What do they think Trump will do for them??
Luckily I don't have to interact with any of the Drumpf cult lately. Frankly, I'll have a nice swear-filled argument ready with them if they ever mention his name. It's impossible for me to be compassionate and understanding to people who follow this scumbag. I'll have a conversation with those folks someday if they ever pull their heads out of their ass.
I know some can be deprogrammed but I think it is a small minority. I am thinking of people like David Weissman, @davidmweissman, whom I follow on Twitter. He was a diehard MAGA in 2015 and 2016 but has since seen the light. I think some are young enough that they were caught up in the pro-tRump "movement" but later open their eyes if there is some independent thought in them. I have seen a few other examples. On the other hand, people like the husband of my niece in Dallas are hard-core QAnon/other conspiracy theorists and can't be reached. Their brains are soaking in anger and paranoia and have been for years. So, the bottom line is in order for me to try to reach out to them I would have to see some small glimmer of independent thought or openness to facts which most of them do not have.
The cult supporters of this failed president should “pray” that the new administration will include, in any new national health plan, a government funded long term mental therapy session policy to deprogram these misled and dangerous people . After being scammed out of funds by their despicable leader they wouldn’t be in a position to pay for long term medical assistance. I say this with “tongue in cheek”. Will be interesting to see what percentage of these “suckers & losers” will admit their folly, and seek assistance.
I know a few who are Trumpers. I don’t engage with them because they are ignorant about politics and history. They are just uneducated on the subjects. Why bother trying to explain anything to them. It’s just frustrating and I need them in my life for specific reasons. I think it’s funny that they want the $2000, but don’t see it as a socialist program. One of them posted a Meme of all the Democratic Socialist Country’s that pay their citizens monthly financial help, then scream that Dems are socialist commies. 😂😂🤣
I cut off any cult45 members a few years ago. I am lucky I don't really have many friends who were supporters. There are unfortunately ones I have to work with, but I am fortunate to work from home now so don't have to deal with them directly.
It will be interesting post pandemic when we are socializing again if the supporters will be so obvious- will they still be wearing the hat? Will they still have their flags displayed on their trucks and homes? Right now with these displays I know who to avoid ...
First off, a Happy and especially Healthy New Year to all. Glad to see '20 almost in the rear-view mirror.
My Mother-in-Law and her husband are "on the other side". We came into each other's lives 32 years ago, she is Grandmother to my child. We learned a very long time ago to "never discuss politics". Once she made the mistake of criticizing the educational system, and I didn't let it pass without a challenge, which ended with, "That's why we shouldn't discuss politics." So, we don't. But, she's a devout Christian living in a rural part of Southern California that over the decades has become an ex-urb of Los Angeles. Anyway, a working class, Conservative, Christian area in the High Desert. Which brings us to today: she told my wife a couple of weeks ago that she "will never accept Biden as legitimate." JFC! She also said that she's afraid if he gets in that we'll become "a Socialist country." Months ago my wife challenged her over the "Socialism" canard with, "Oh, so you don't want your Medicare or your Social Security?" Stopped her dead in her tracks. Now get this: her church, where she teaches Bible study, was closed for many months, but holding drive-in services. Then, a couple of months ago, she texted me while I was working out-of-town (after I had been pandemic-unemployed for 4 1/2 months), saying that she was holding Bible study IN HER HOME, max of 10 people, and that they wore their masks ON THE WAY OVER but TOOK THEM OFF ONCE "SOCIALLY DISTANT". It took me 2 hours to decide to set her straight, I told her that since she was having people in her home, they MUST KEEP THEIR MASKS ON WHEN INSIDE. She wrote me back that "they're all from good families and they wear their masks when out at the grocery, and there haven't been any positive cases in 6 months" in her city. That's when we decided that we will not be visiting in her home during the pandemic. So, 10 days ago we met 1/2 way at a park, sat at different picnic tables, had a meal that we brought, and exchanged bags of gifts for Christmas later. No, I won't be "discussing politics" with her. It's a constant annoyance and the only consolation is knowing that here in California her vote doesn't mean shit, for president, anyway. Yeah, she gets a Rethug congressman, but we get the two senators and the president. We get along just fine so long as we avoid politics. Here's a Wapo story on the hospital that's less than a mile from my MiL's house, we have to drive past it to get to her: https://apple.news/AikyOEJx9QwWWWu4z_ioccQ. My MiL said that "They got a lot of it wrong." It's very frustrating but we keep the peace and have for 3 decades.
Be safe everyone. Be vigilant. I'm afraid it will be getting even worse in another week or two with the Christmas surge, and the hospital ICU's here in L.A. are already at 0% capacity.
Thank you for all that you do, Michelangelo, including for challenging the Trumpists on the air, and for providing this forum. You are a beacon of sanity and rational discourse.
Michaelangelo Happy New Year to you and your family! I think that the numbers supporting Cheetolini will drop back to that historic 20-25% range from before this election. Whether it is worth the effort that will depend on the person. My cousin has not spoken to me since I voted for Barack in '08 and I am fine with that!